NOVEMBER 22, 2009
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Gospel singer Ray Boltz shares coming out journey in this Blade exclusive

HOME > ENTERTAINMENT > FEATURE

Sep 12, 2008  |  By: JOEY DiGUGLIELMO  | COMMENTS      Printer Friendly Version

Ray Boltz wanted to do something nice.

He’d visited the mostly gay Jesus Metropolitan Community Church in Indianapolis and liked Rev. Jeff Miner, so he decided to give him a copy of his 1997 holiday recording, “A Christmas Album.”

It was one of 16 albums Boltz, 55, recorded during a nearly 20-year recording career that saw the Muncie, Ind., native become one of the better-known singer/songwriters in Contemporary Christian Music, a genre born out of the Jesus Movement of the early 1970s that made singers like Amy Grant, Sandi Patty, Michael W. Smith and Steven Curtis Chapman superstars in religious music with occasional excursions into mainstream pop culture.

Boltz, with about 4.5 million LPs, cassettes and CDs sold, never made a splash outside of Christian circles but he never really tried. With a handful of RIAA Gold-certified albums, three Dove Awards from the Gospel Music Association (GMA) and a string of 12 No. 1 hits on Christian radio, Boltz is a household name in evangelical circles. “Thank You,” a sentimental song about a dream in which a Christian thanks the Sunday school teacher who led him to embrace Christ, is his signature song. It was the GMA song of the year in 1990 and has become a staple of Christian funerals. Other Boltz trademarks are “Watch the Lamb,” “The Anchor Holds” and “I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb.”

Boltz brought the Christmas CD with him to MCC-Indianapolis on that cold, sunny December 2007 day and slipped it to Miner on his way out with a note taped to it on which he’d jotted his e-mail address.

Ostensibly it was an innocuous thing to do, but for Boltz it was a big step. It eventually led to him opening up to Miner, one of the first times anybody outside Boltz’s circle of family and friends knew his long-kept secret: Ray Boltz is gay.

“I didn’t make a big deal of it,” Boltz says during a 90-minute phone interview from his home in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. “But I was trembling. I’d kind of had two identities since I moved to Florida where I kind of had this other life and I’d never merged the two lives. This was the first time I was taking my old life as Ray Boltz, the gospel singer, and merging it with my new life. Emotionally it was kind of a big deal to think about that.”

Ray Boltz was tired of living a lie.

He’d gotten to a point nearly three years before where he couldn’t continue down the road his life had gone.

His 33-year marriage to ex-wife Carol was, he says, largely a happy one. It produced four children — three daughters and a son who are now between 22 and 32 — but family life and going through the motions of being straight had grown so wearying to Boltz, he was in a serious depression, had been in therapy for years, was on Prozac and other anti-depressants and had been, for a time, suicidal.

“I thought I hid it really well,” he says. “I didn’t know people could see what I was going through, the darkness and the struggle. After I came out to my family, one of my daughters said she was afraid to walk in my bedroom because she was afraid she’d find me — that I’d done something to myself. And I didn’t even know they’d picked it up.”

The Boltz family remembers Dec. 26, 2004 for two reasons: the tsunami in the Indian Ocean but also the tsunami that their husband and father unleashed when he told them what had been bothering him for so many years.

He hadn’t planned a major announcement — but sitting around the kitchen table at his daughter’s house, Boltz’s son, Philip, asked him what was wrong.

“I thought, ‘Well, I can just do what I always do and hide the truth or I can take a risk and be honest,’” Boltz says. “That day, with the tsunami, has become very symbolic in our family.”

Nobody was sure, at the time, what the ramifications of the revelation would be, least of all Ray.

“It’s hard to say I came out because I didn’t have all the answers. I just admitted what I was struggling with and what I was feeling. It’s hard to go, ‘This is the point where I accepted my sexuality and who I was,’ but I came out to them and shared with them what I’d been going through.”

Continuing to pretend, Boltz says, was no longer an option.

“I’d denied it ever since ...

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Please review and follow Washington Blade’s current Comment and Discussion Policy. Guidelines updated as of August 22nd, 2009. You are fully responsible for the content that you post.

Christine Bakke
0
Ray, thank you for your honesty and courage. May you weather the upcoming CCM storm with deep peace and calm. You are very loved!

Posted 9/12/08 - 12:23 PM


Josh P.
Dillwyn, Va
0
I suppose I have a bit of time advantage on Ray, as I'm 16 and came out to my parents and consequently most of my friends and acquaintances about a month ago. Ray, you're definitely in my prayers.. and I think I speak for gay christians everywhere when I say THANK YOU for having the courage to come out. Maybe someday soon Christians will see this isn't something that can be demonized or ignored and instead respond in love.

Posted 9/12/08 - 8:45 PM


RichCMusic
Aliso Viejo, Ca
0
Hi Ray, Went though similar about 13 years ago. Was in Christian Music, though not as well known as you. Was married with 3 kids. Things are good with the kids now. I still love the Lord. I am blessed to have found a significant musical place to be creatively of service. Keep your head up. You'll get through it. Rich

Posted 9/13/08 - 6:31 AM


Ashleigh Blake
0
Those who defend, promote and live homosexual lifestyles have exchanged the truth of God for a lie. Many claim it's genetic or natural, so they expect others to accept this "alternative" lifestyle. But the truth is that God calls homosexuality sin, and with his help you always have a choice of whether or not to live in your sin (see Romans 8:1-17). Sadly, many Christians have also sinned by failing to love and reach out to those who struggle with homosexuality and have trated them instead with contempt. Let's learn how to love others even as we hold on to the truth. (From:True Identity Bible)

Posted 9/13/08 - 12:06 PM


JimmyChoo
0
Ray, I have so much respect for you right now! I know it must have taken a lot of courage. Good luck as you move forward in your career!

Posted 9/13/08 - 12:31 PM


AngelHunt
0
It's hard to write a disagreeing comment for fear that it will be taken as a mean, hurtful speech sent out only to condemn. However, this is not my agenda. I do disagree with homosexuality and strongly believe the Bible does as well. Hogue stated that he hopes homosexuality will be received just like women preachers or divorced Christians in church leadership. However, both women preachers and divorced Christians were set about by man's rules. Man's rules change. Homosexuality is set about my God's rules, which do not change. It is a sin. In the last days, even the "elite will be deceived".

Posted 9/13/08 - 3:00 PM


AngelHunt
0
God's rules are black and white. There is no gray area. My heart breaks for Ray Boltz, and he will be in my continuous prayers.

Posted 9/13/08 - 3:02 PM


Emproph
0
Thank you Ray Boltz. There are so many kids out there who are safer tonight and who will continue to be safer because of you. Thank you -Patrick

Posted 9/13/08 - 5:32 PM


Choney
Baton Rouge, La
0
God created us all and considers us as his "children" and loves us very much whether straight, gay, bi or lesbian. The Bible doesn't say God loves everyone except Gay's; he loves us ALL!! Ray; I commend u for the courage, strength and honesty it took to come out to your family and friends. I know that was a difficult choice. I hope and pray that u keep going forward and life treats u well and that people will understand that Gay's have feelings, hurt, love to give and jobs to do just like everyone else. God bless u and may God bless u with his love, peace, joy and happiness. Godspeed my friend

Posted 9/13/08 - 7:37 PM


Jimbo
0
When I was struggling in my 'ex-gay' phase, I sometimes used to listen to 'The Anchor Holds' - facing the storms in my life at the time. I can see now why it struck such a chord. Best wishes on the journey ahead Ray. I'm glad you've reached that place where you can respect and love yourself as you are. Thanks for speaking out about it. I hope that this step acts to encourage those who are still conflicted over their faith and sexuality, that it may lead to relieving some of the burden that they've been carrying.

Posted 9/13/08 - 7:56 PM


Caretaker
Farmers Branch, Tx
0
Of course God loves the homosexual that is not the question or the issue at hand. The issue is, is homosexual behavior a sin? According to the Bible it is a sin just as heterosexual behavior outside of marriage is a sin. The heterosexual must also apply biblical truth to his life and remain pure and not have sex unless he is married - according to the Bible. These are God's standards and not ours. We don't make the "rules", we just apply them to our lives. It is arrogant to thing we know better than a loving AND just God. I for one could not imagine the struggle. God loves you.

Posted 9/14/08 - 12:49 AM


CinnyMinnie
0
I have been listening to Ray Boltz' music since I was a young girl. He is an incredibly talented man. I'm sad to hear about how he struggled with his sexuality for so long. I love him, but I don't love his lifestyle-the Bible clearly states homosexuality is a sin. I can't judge him, NONE of us can-we all deal with sinful urges on a daily basis. The best we could do is lift him up in prayer.

Posted 9/14/08 - 2:09 AM


Mr Chris
0
Since when the God fearing FOLKS start coming to the Washington Blade?

Posted 9/14/08 - 2:55 AM


DaninNOLA
New Orleans
0
I want to congradulate those of you who so proudly use passages from the Bible to condemn others. Just remember, Jesus also said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". As far as I know, there is NOBODY that can lay claim to being able to throw that 'first stone'.

Posted 9/14/08 - 1:04 PM


graperonto
0
Having just come out to myself at the age of 39 (less than a year ago) and was in ex-gay ministries, conferences, and everything else for TWELVE YEARS, I have to say that it took a lot for Ray to do this. I resonate with his story. It might has well have been me. My journey is almost exactly the same (well, except that I was never married with kids). Bless you brother Ray. You and your whole family will be in my prayers.

Posted 9/14/08 - 2:36 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
"However, both women preachers and divorced Christians were set about by man's rules." - AngelHunt You are incorrect. Paul, which many conservative evangelical/fundamentalist Christians believe is a spokesperson for Jesus stated that women were to remain silent in church and Jesus himself said that divorce/remarriage was the sin of adultery. So they are "God" ordained commands not man-made. Christians that condemn homosexuality are always quick to justify their own sins; lieing, stealing, wealth, divorce/remarriage. The Religious Right is a perfect example of Christianity gone wrong.

Posted 9/14/08 - 4:46 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
"Since when the God fearing FOLKS start coming to the Washington Blade?" - Mr. Chris - Most likely by Googling his name. Many popular known Christians have come out of the closet recently. I hope more come out. It is a difficult journey but one that the individual and God must take together. God is still speaking to us and revealing himself to creation. His revelations didn't end with the Bible. All of life's answers are not neatly placed in a book that was only put together four centuries after Christ's resurrection. Submit to God's command of loving him and one another in your heart.

Posted 9/14/08 - 5:04 PM


darren_n_wayne
Ausin, Ar
0
Love to ALL! www.sherwoodopendoor.org Darren & Wayne (soundguys at Open Door Community Church, Sherwood AR).

Posted 9/14/08 - 6:38 PM


Nanners
0
You know, it's always difficult to say anything on this subject as a Christian, because I suppose that I will be accused of bashing. This came as a surprise. I actually read about this in a MySpace bulletin. We can go around and around as to whether or not God made him that way as he says, but I can say that he seems to have given in. He says he feels closer to God, but his current lifestyle isn't pleasing to God. There are lots of things in the Christian life that we have to do that are uncomfortable for us because we are denying our flesh (which isn't bad as people try to make it seem)

Posted 9/14/08 - 6:58 PM


Matt Algren
0
Thank you to the Washington Blade for giving Mr. Boltz a place to make this announcement. Mr. Boltz, hang in there. We all know that some people will try to convince you to hate your self, but don't you do it! You are a wonderful piece of God's creation. Thank you for your candor in this interview. Thank you for accepting God's acceptance. Thank you for giving future generations of gay Christians someone to look up to. Thank you for giving to the Lord. I am so glad you gave.

Posted 9/14/08 - 10:01 PM


rnmommy
0
This truly saddened my heart. My question here is if Ray Boltz thinks God is ok with him continuing to sin in homosexuality. Then in the same breath he is also saying God loves and approves of the pedaphile the molesters and is ok with their sins too and wants them to live their life living those sins. I beleive as christians we all have weaknesses, temptations, and we need to look to God for help. God says this is wrong not me. Surrendering salvation is not worth the sacrafice of enjoying worldy temptations, it is not worth sacraficing enternity.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:22 AM


rnmommy
0
I am not here to judge anyone. For I have sins of my own. I love all people. But, I think as christians we have to acknowledge our sins and not make excuses for them or bend the rules to make it more accepting to ourselves because it is what the flesh desires. Yes, God loves us all but that does not mean that he approves of us continuing to sin. I will continue to pray that eyes will be opened and that God will speak deep into the hearts of those that are blinded to the truth.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:29 AM


hopeinGod
0
After six years of stuggling for stabliity after being saved, I was led to a small home group where I finally sat under well-rounded teaching. The leader was greatly loved by all those who attended. His quick mind and extraordinary knowledge of Scripture was inspiring. After years of denial, our teacher, Mike, fled from anything remotely Christian including his friends for a gay lifestyle. He is now a well respected anesthesiologist in a local hospital. Many of his old friends have sought to contact him, to tell him we remain his friends, and it is he who has chosen to shut us out.

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:38 AM


Jlove
0
Lev 20:13 Rom 1:26,27 Just a couple of verses from the Bible. God does not change, his word does not change and one day we all will be judged according to the Bible. Every way of a man is right in his own eyes; but God pondereth the hearts.Proverbs 21:13 Remember, nothing is too hard for God. He can save, heal, deliver and restore if we put our trust in him and not in our own thoughts and feelings. He loves us but our choices will determine where we spend eternity.

Posted 9/15/08 - 12:02 PM


dcase62
0
Hi Ray, It made my day to read your aricle--- I grew up in Muncie and have enjoyed your music through out the years.. Your a great role model for the gay christian man.

Posted 9/15/08 - 12:23 PM


artm
Oswego, Il
0
I must admit that I am very sorry to hear about Mr Boltz. I am sorry because I know that one cannot be a practising homosexual and be Christian.

Posted 9/15/08 - 12:32 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
It really is sad that there are so many here commenting that really have a disdain for gay people. They use the bible to condemn gays while approving divorce/remarriage and the prosperity gospel in their own churches. There are groups of ex-Christians online and each and everyone of them have admitted that it was wrong to attack gays. And it was mainly due to their personal hatred towards gays and not the Bible. The Bible was just used to backup their hatred. In the same manner as it was against blacks. Bible inerrancy and literalism is a lie! Then: the Golden Calf. Now: the Bible.

Posted 9/15/08 - 3:21 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
Going back to Ray, he has not changed. He still is the same person all of you have known. Just because he acknowledges the fact he is gay some of you that loved his music have turned to condemned him. Why? Because he no longer fits your biblical worldview? The Bible is NOT God people! Why is it so hard to understand that God is still speaking to us? Still revealing himself and the universe to us? The Earth is round and no longer regarded as the center of the universe. The bible did not reveal that to us. God did that over time. Why is science the enemy to so many Christians?

Posted 9/15/08 - 3:33 PM


mikeseer
Indianapolis, In
0
St. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. The bible is GOD! His word is true and He speaks to us through His word.

Posted 9/15/08 - 4:20 PM


hopeinGod
0
Even Jesus explained that our search through the Scriptures should lead us to Him, that the Bible testifies of Him. Yet many people will read it and not come to Him, He added. Why is this? Well, according to Jesus' further teaching, many people will not "come to the light (to Him) because their deeds are evil"...that they are "not wrought in God." (His words, not mine). Any sin separates the doer from God. But, there is hope in Christ, because He has not left us without a way of escape. For if we confess our sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins.

Posted 9/15/08 - 4:37 PM


Nanners
0
The bible is a complete revelation of God. Jesus is God incarnate. Any belief that God would change the meaning of His word today is emergent/emerging church secular thinking, not biblical Christianity. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He IS His word, contrary to what you say StopWorshipingIdols. HE says so. No person is condemning Ray. We are all condemned without Jesus Christ, and Ray has turned his back on Him in this area. He has decided not to struggle against this sin in his life. Thats what I see happening here.

Posted 9/15/08 - 5:29 PM


Nanners
0
Oh and just for clarity, I have had MANY friends that were gay. I love them, and as much as I would get along with them (like any other person) I enjoy their company. They are wonderful people. But you can't honor God and call homosexuality anything but sin. My church does not teach any kind of prosperity gospel whatsoever.

Posted 9/15/08 - 5:34 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
"St. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God. The bible is GOD! His word is true and He speaks to us through His word." - mikeseer - The Bible is NOT God! The bible is not perfect! Only God himself is perfect! What you hold in your hands is a translation. Check out other bibles and see for yourself.I can point to you the contradictions and imperfections in Scripture. The Bible is NOT the be all and end all to God. That is why God is still revealing himself to us. Do not reject reason and science because your faith cannot stand beyond what is written in the Bible.

Posted 9/15/08 - 6:18 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
hopeinGod and Nanners - what you fail to understand is that God is still speaking to us. I do not discount the Bible or reject it. I simply do not accept its inerrancy. What you worship is a translation. The Bible is inspired and written decades after Christ's resurrection. For four centuries there was no Bible to be had. So are we to say that the early Christians have not been truly saved because they had no Bible to witness from? Did Paul preach inerrancy of Scripture to be saved? No. I have met many former Christians like yourselves. Nothing they said then has benefited the Body of Christ.

Posted 9/15/08 - 6:38 PM


warriorooo38
Sebring, Fl
0
A friend told me of this article. I am a huge Ray Boltz fan. Was I shocked? Yes. Am I going to judge him? No. One thing I try to show my fellow christians is that we can be real quick to judge. We need to behold the BEAMS that are in our own eye before we can point out the SPLINTER in someone elses eye. What's going on with Ray is between him and God and nobody else. Me personally, I am not gay, but I am not going to go around and bash "gays". In the past, I have actually had gay "housemates". They knew where I stood and I knew where they stood. Ray, may the good Lord be with you.

Posted 9/15/08 - 8:51 PM


triciasmind
0
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Once we come to an understanding of truth, creating a lifestyle of sin without shame or repentance sets us apart. I refer us all to the passage in Hebrews 10:26 which says "Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins." Ray is deceiving himself and those he's leading to bed with him. The addict of porn, the liar, the habitual slanderer, gossip, adulterer is not excused for sinful behavior merely because they know Christ.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:37 PM


triciasmind
0
BECAUSE we know Christ, we have reason to "Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body" 1 Corinthians 6:18. There is no temptation too great for any of us that we can't resist. Ephesians 5:3 Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:40 PM


Nanners
0
Everyone: Yes, this is exactly what the emergent church teaches: the bible is not inerrant. Well, then we can just toss it out and then make something up that we want to think is god, which is EXACTLY what idolatry is, ironically, StopWorshipingIdols. So you can either accept it as the word of God or not, but do not call yourself a Christian if you reject the words of Christ, because you are not. Its one thing to struggle with it, its another to give in. This is exactly why Ray Boltz did this. Because people are telling him he can do what he wants.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:40 PM


triciasmind
0
Ray, it doesn't matter if you're a really nice guy or not. Doesn't matter if I'm a nice woman or not. Prisons are full of nice people who are still guilty of wrongdoing (sin). Tolerance of sin and justification of it is the slippery slope toward the falling away. You have my sympathy at the mess you've made for yourself but I hold you accountable for the way you live as I hold myself. Don't say GOD MADE YOU that way.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:42 PM


Nanners
0
And no one is "bashing" gays. Its so amazing how people call speaking what the bible says is bashing. If my gay friends know what the bible says and continues on in the sin, I am not going to beat him over the head with it. He knows what it says and has made his choice, JUST LIKE my friends that are not believers or my friends where we disagree on a minor issue on the bible. I just don't talk to them about that subject. Do I stop loving them? Absolutely not!

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:44 PM


Nanners
0
So are we to say that the early Christians have not been truly saved because they had no Bible to witness from? Did Paul preach inerrancy of Scripture to be saved?**** No of course not! Even Jesus quoted from the Torah! THIS is how we establish what was inspired and what wasn't. God does not contradict Himself, and saying that homosexuality is okay would be contradicting God. It isn't to Him. Do I love them less? No. I have to keep saying that because if I don't I am absolutely sure I will be accused of bashing! Its insane!

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:49 PM


triciasmind
0
Time will tell if Ray is clearly consulting God about this or not. "The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure" 1 Corinthians 10:13. I'm a little weary of people blaming a childhood experience for a reason to live in perversion as adults. If you know God, you know its wrong. Where's the shame for sin today? Its okay to feel miserable when you have impure thoughts, it keeps us from falling!

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:50 PM


triciasmind
0
One day Jesus said to his disciples, “There will always be temptations to sin, but what sorrow awaits the person who does the tempting! Luke 17:1 The sexually immoral person is always leading someone else astray. Notice what the Bible says. Still trying to justify it? You can't, not if you're a believer.

Posted 9/15/08 - 9:56 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
Nanners and others here - How many in your own congregations have married/divorced and remarried? Is that not the sin or adultery? Matthew 5 v.31-32. If they have, do you tell them to their face that they must repent of their sin, leave the second marriage, and tell them they must remain celibate and single the rest of their lives? Or do you attend the wedding and approve of their sin? Do you tell the children of such marriages that they were conceived in sin? And why not? Do you not hold the Bible as the inerrant and literal word of God? Talk about justifying sin! Shame!

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:27 PM


triciasmind
0
StopWorshippingIdols are you actually trying to justify sin by saying everybody else is doing it?

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:39 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
As a Christian I feel sorrow for my sins but we are to rejoice in knowing that as believer I am forgiven. However, many self-righteous Christians here are quick to judge a homosexual quicker than someone who over eats, divorces and remarries, has excess wealth and lies. triciasmind - You truly are sad. If you actually listened to gays perhaps you would understand them better. You simply disregard gay people as CHOOSING their lives and their misery. You read their hearts as only our Lord can and sit yourself at the judgment seat of our Lord. What can I say? Truly sad. Truly sad indeed.

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:40 PM


triciasmind
0
StopWorshippingIdols, I am not sad. If you've read me, I hold homosexuality no lower than any sin. I've quoted the Bible which says life's going to bring us temptations, we need to stand strong, its a trap. I don't disregard gay people at all. Alcoholics are miserable as well, pedophiles are miserable, sin makes us miserable. Making a career or a life out of it isn't going to bring peace. Now, for the world, perhaps they can convince themselves they're not accountable to God for their lives/for the Christian we know we are. When we are tempted, we are instructed to flee.

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:44 PM


triciasmind
0
Sad to you? If insulting me somehow elevates you, please feel free to continue to do that. I don't seek your approval. Should Ray or any other Christian brother or sister read this board, the record will show I cared enough to remind them what our God said on the matter. Just because the world is suddenly saying "just do what you want to" doesn't mean we ought to. God instructed us on how to handle these trying days. I'm glad to remind all of us, including me, that we don't get a free-pass to slack off becauwe we're weary of fighting desire.

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:46 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
triciasmind - "StopWorshippingIdols are you actually trying to justify sin by saying everybody else is doing it?" Not at all. But I find most evangelical/fundamentalist conservative Christians are so willing to condemn gay people to the point of passing laws to strip them of their rights and stopping hate crime laws that would protect gays that you forget your own churches are filled with horrible sin! HYPOCISY honey! And Jesus called those that were self-righteous just on that!

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:49 PM


triciasmind
0
Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins. Hebrews 10:26 I believe this to be true. Today we're hearing what Eve heard in the garden when the serpant said "Did God really say?". Some will fall away, thinking God didn't leave us instruction, God isn't serious about His expectations for us. I'm going to do things His way and love one another while still sharing what His Word says. I'll error on the side of informing what scripture says. We can't afford to lie.

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:52 PM


triciasmind
0
There haven't been any laws passed to strip them of their rights. What you want is legislation of sin. You're the one being hateful, not me. Nice hypocrisy.

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:53 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
No. I am not trying to insult you. You simply do not understand the plight of gay people.Many of you here do not. You liken gays to alcoholics, pedophiles, murders, thieves, which shows me you don't understand gays one bit. Gays are who they are triciasmind. You and others like you demand that others must live according to your biblical worldview. Its no wonder there are so many Christian denominations! Not everyone is in agreement which is why another storefront church opens up the following Sunday. And each and every one of them claims to know the "truth."

Posted 9/15/08 - 10:59 PM


triciasmind
0
Stopworshipping, quote where I've demanded others must live according to my biblical worldview.

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:00 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
Oh, so adding sexual orientation to hate crimes laws is legislating sin? Being protected from being thrown out of your apartment is legislating sin? Trying to visit your ill partner which you spent the last 30 years with is legislating sin because they not the next of kin? I seriously doubt Christ would even recognize some of these Christians walking around today. Ghandi said it right: "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. - Mohandas Gandhi

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:08 PM


God Bless You Ray Boltz
Sarasota, Fl
0
I have been saved for 8 years. I've been gay for 50. When I started singing in church, I was drawn to Ray's music. His message of God's love touched me unmistakenly. God is my anchor, and he is holding me. Thank You Ray for your contribution to music & to my life. I wish you all the best & I know that I will see you one day in the not to distant future beside the crystal sea. For those Christians that believe God made everything & everyone, how can you suddenly decide that he didn't create those of us who love someone of the same gender. Shame on all of you. I continue to pray for you.

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:10 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Ray, Your music made an impact on my life. The first concert was in Atlanta. Then, a group of us sponsored bringing you to Dothan, AL. We would travel if you were near, bring our children to your concerts. We would listen to "Watch The Lamb" and feel an amazing unity with God through Praise and worship of Jesus. I cried today when I heard the news of your acceptance of homosexuality. Ray, I am a sinner, too. But I despise my sins. They separate me from the love of God. Shame prevents repentance and communion with God. KNOW you are loved. I pray for Mercy for us all. Peace and Love.

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:12 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
"Stopworshipping, quote where I've demanded others must live according to my biblical worldview." - By your very words on here. If someone disagrees with you they are not living according to your biblical worldview. I have come across other conservative Christians as yourself time and time again. Its all the same. I must conform to your biblical worldview otherwise I am doomed. I refuse. Not because I do not believe or have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, but I do not interpret the Bible the same as you do. Many other denominations do not interpret the Bible as you do.

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:19 PM


triciasmind
0
"Shame!""You are sad" "Truly sad" "Truly sad indeed" "You don't understand" "You demand others must live according to your biblical worldview"- yet when asked for an example, you are unable to provide one. All these lies by someone wanting tolerance? All this ranting from someone who wants everyone to live in peace and live and let live? LOL Its people like you who have kept the homosexual community in the closet. People who make a scene make everyone uncomfortable.You do no good whatsoever until you get your emotions under control and can make a valid point without throwing in hysteria

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:21 PM


triciasmind
0
Goodnight, StopWorshippingIdols.I am not your enemy. I posted some Bible verses to another Christian (Ray) in case he'd forgotten them.Christians are welcome to do that for each other in good times and in difficult. We're not going to agree because I believe the Bible, you believe people are free to live as they choose. Still,I'm undeserving of the additional personal remarks you made to me.You don't know me.You can't accuse me of not understanding without knowing me.Be careful in throwing the word"hypocrite"around while you're in this frame of mind.You can't preach love while throwing hate

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:32 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
To all those Christians here that I disagree with. This will be my last post in this thread. In closing I want you to please open your hearts and listen to what gay Christians have to say. We are not the evil doers you think we are. We are Christians that are living according to what we believe God called us to be. The Bible does not hold every answer for us today. That is why God is still revealing himself to us. Please do not condemn gays just because you believe the bible tells you so. - God Bless! Pray for peace!

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:34 PM


StopWorshiping Idols
0
I feel the need to answer triciasmind. I do not believe in allowing people to do what they want as you claim I do. There is horrible sin in this world and we have been saved only if we believe and have a change of heart. I do admit I do not have the same biblical worldview as you do. I believe in opening my mind and heart to what God can still reveal to me. His will has not been neatly and perfectly placed in Scripture. Even Isaiah 55 v.8-9 states that we do not know the mind or the ways of God. And I would be an arrogant fool to say otherwise. - Goodnight triciasmind ;)

Posted 9/15/08 - 11:55 PM


hopeinGod
0
As a professional musician, I have done everything from lead worship in churches to entertain in clubs, at festivals, etc. During my college days, I even played in gay and lesbian bars. In those clubs, my intent was never to do anything more than to make a buck, to earn tuition money. Did I find the people repulsive? Only those who were overly flamboyant. Their gesturing gave me the willies. Surprisingly, there wasn't as much dancing as I thought there would be, despite the variety of material we played. The patrons' favorite song in those days was, "I'll Never Love This Way Again."

Posted 9/16/08 - 8:44 AM


Jacobcompassion
0
I've had the privilege to know some of the intense inner dialog and introspection Ray has experienced in his quest to become a whole/integrated/authentic and still quite wonderful/soulful/blessed and talented human being. I applaud the article (and him) which parallels his journey well and without the apologetic shame the judgmental Christians apparently require to rationalize their dogma and sidestep their OWN pain ("sin"). Where do they think Ray's passionate words and vocal delivery came from all those years? AND wait until the inclusive world hears his current/powerful/deeply felt MUSIC!

Posted 9/16/08 - 8:44 AM


EliYah
0
Ray Boltz: “If this is the way God made me, then this is the way I’m going to live. It’s not like God made me this way and he’ll send me to hell if I am who he created me to be … I really feel closer to God because I no longer hate myself.” Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers no

Posted 9/16/08 - 11:49 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Hebrews 12:2 "For the sake of the joy that lay before him,he endured the cross, despising its shame....Jesus DESPISES the shame that we feel when we sin. The enemy of God wants us to feel shame and separate from God. But, Jesus gives us a way out; to repent of our sin.I know I sin and need to repent daily of falling short. But I do not justify my sins!I don't understand. Does anyone believe homosexuality is acceptable behavior to God? If so, do you pick and choose certain parts of the bible to embrace and ignore the ones that make you feel uncomfortable? PLEASE, I truly seek to understand

Posted 9/16/08 - 1:25 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Ray Boltz music was inspired by God. I have compassion for Ray; his agony and struggle to find peace. I cannot judge him. But I am to discern right from wrong. The Word is my guide, teaching to persevere in righteousness.Israel embraced rebellion and suffered exile. I fear disobedience because I HATE feeling separated from the love of God. God LOVES each of us with an everlasting love. He wants a Covenant relationship with each of us; We separate ourselves from Him when we embrace sin. I am ruined for HIM, nothing satisfies the soul like the Lord.

Posted 9/16/08 - 1:56 PM


triciasmind
0
His will has absolutely been made clear in scripture. There are passages that tell us the consequences of behaviors that are defined by name. God's always been serious about rebellion. Have compassion for the broken, absolutely. But don't tell me its a Christ-like thing for a father to look his kids in the eye and say "i'm not going to be married to your mom or give you the life you've always known anymore, because I really like to have sex with men." Before Christ came into our lives, we were a wreck. After His Holy Spirit came to dwell in our hearts, we can't pretend sin is innocent.

Posted 9/16/08 - 2:16 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
I am truly seeking to gain understanding from the gay/lesbian community.

Posted 9/16/08 - 2:55 PM


Doctor Whom
0
To the people who keep quoting the Bible against homosexuality: Do you also follow Biblical law on slavery and on stoning rape victims to death? If not, then don't lecture us on picking and choosing from the Bible.

Posted 9/16/08 - 3:23 PM


triciasmind
0
Homosexuality isn't mentioned in Old Testament law only. If you don't believe the Bible, its to be expected that Biblical quotes will bother you. If you do believe the Bible, you'll know there's no justifying that lifestyle. No justifying any of our sins.

Posted 9/16/08 - 3:59 PM


Doctor Whom
0
triciasmind: "Homosexuality isn't mentioned in Old Testament law only." Neither is slavery, so what's your point?

Posted 9/16/08 - 4:23 PM


EliYah
0
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom

Posted 9/16/08 - 4:54 PM


triciasmind
0
Have compassion for the broken, absolutely. But don't tell me its a Christ-like thing for a father to look his kids in the eye and say "i'm not going to be married to your mom or give you the life you've always known anymore, because I really like to have sex with men." Before Christ came into our lives, we were a wreck. After His Holy Spirit came to dwell in our hearts, we can't pretend sin is innocent.

Posted 9/16/08 - 5:32 PM


graperonto
0
Should anyone be interested, check out www.gaychristian.net There are two distinct groups there: Side A=those who believe that the bible does not condemn monogamous same-sex relationship or that homosexuality is sin. This group makes up about 95% of GayChristian.net (GCN) However, there's a Side B. Christians who, although they recognize that their ORIENTATATION is homosexual, do not act on it. They believe that to do so would be sin. Thus, they seek to live celibate lives. But they still acknowledge themselves as gay Christians. I personally am a member of GCN. And I'm Side B.

Posted 9/16/08 - 5:35 PM


fisherwoman
0
Jesus said, "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and EVEN HIS OWN LIFE, he CANNOT be My disciple. Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple." Luke 14: 26,27 "He who has found his life shall LOSE it, and he who has lost his life for My sake shall find it." Matt. 10:39 Don't be deceived. Many will be shocked hearing Him say "Depart from Me, I never knew you, worker of lawlessness." Matt. 7:21-23 To lust is adultery. www.thegoodpersontest.com www.examineyourself.com

Posted 9/16/08 - 6:04 PM


happymom
0
This is my first and last post on this site.I'm very saddened by Mr. Boltz' situation. God created man then God created woman.God did not create gay.God makes NO MISTAKES! Sin causes people to want to make a change only to justify their sin. SIN IS SIN.When you become a Christian you are totally transformed.What you were before,you are NO MORE.II Cor.5:17 says:"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature:old things are passed away;behold,all things are become new." You cannot say you are a Christian and live a sinful lifestyle. Be not decieved!You must repent and turn away from sin

Posted 9/16/08 - 6:14 PM


fisherwoman
0
Jesus clearly held up the Law in Matt. 5-7. He said lust is adultery, hatred is murder. He looks at the intent of the heart. Every secret thought will be judged. Nothing will be hidden. Ray needs to repent and truly believe and trust Jesus, or His wrath remains on Him. John 3: 36. Those who love darkness rather than light will not inherit the Kingdom. John 3:19-21 God's standard is perfection. ALL have sinned. Can Ray say he has not committed adultery according to God's standard? I prayerfully submit: www.needGod.com www.examineyourself.com

Posted 9/16/08 - 6:29 PM


Doctor Whom
0
To those who are posting the URL's of Bible-related sites, I'll gladly return the favor: http://www.heterodoxy.com/societyofchristians/

Posted 9/16/08 - 6:33 PM


hopeinGod
0
Homosexual relationships are generated, not by love, but by the absence of it, and encouraged by the New Age religion of tolerance. In writing to the Phillipians, Paul wrote that he was praying for them, asking the Lord to add to their love knowledge and judgment. Why? Because we must be taught what to love and how to love. Remember the young man who was sleeping with his step mother in Corinth? Paul very sarcastically wrote to ask them, "When I come to see you, do you want me to come with a rod or in "love"? What they needed was not applause for showing tolerance.

Posted 9/16/08 - 6:59 PM


Viv
0
I do not want to bash anyone and I'm writing because I really want to understand how one can be a Christian who believes in what the Bible says and then say there's nothing wrong with being homosexual. Please help me to understand. Although I don't believe it's any worse than any other sin I still believe it is a sin. And everyone is tempted in one way or another. Some are tempted to lie, to steal, to cheat, to commit adultery, and others are tempted by same sex attraction. And we are not to succumb to sin of any sort. So how can someone say that is the way God made me? Sin is sin.

Posted 9/16/08 - 7:35 PM


doug3
milton, Pn
0
DEAR RAY Boltz, This is what you said, “If this is the way God made me, then this is the way I’m going to live. It’s not like God made me this way and he’ll send me to hell if I am who he created me to be … I really feel closer to God because I no longer hate myself.” Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders. Ray I will Be praying for you.

Posted 9/16/08 - 8:09 PM


Chaplain Chris
0
I very much appreciated the honesty of this article, and this man. I am a straight ex-christian and ex-minister who worked for many years with "outcast" people who, like Jesus, would never be welcomed in the Church. Religion, especially self-righteous religion, is too divisive and irrational for our day. I hope Mr. Boltz will find, as I have, a Life After Faith (see my book by that title on my website www.naturetemple.net)

Posted 9/16/08 - 8:12 PM


jr42a
Tucson, Az
0
Haven't read the other comments, but just want to express my appreciation for this article. I'm from just across the state line in Greenville, Ohio (originally) I'm 47, a Pastor in the same situation as Ray and just came out last July. This was so awesome to read...Somebody else who understands!

Posted 9/16/08 - 8:34 PM


triciasmind
0
Gay or not the man abandoned his wife and kids. You can't justify that from a "man of God".

Posted 9/16/08 - 8:49 PM


Doctor Whom
0
triciasmind: Jesus had no problems demanding that his disciples abandon their families. You really ought to try reading your Bible more closely.

Posted 9/16/08 - 9:10 PM


triciasmind
0
Doctor, you're from a different team. No sense continuing the banter. No man was ever encouraged to leave his wife and children to drop his pants for a guy.

Posted 9/16/08 - 9:13 PM


Out For Jesus
Beaverton
0
I'm sure everyone hear has been blessed by the music of Ray.... have you cried and raised your hands with the moving of the Holy Spirit? Yes, he may have just come OUT, but God has known all along who he is and allowed His Spirit to bless people through the music. To recap, YOU might not have known, but God did... All these verses you keep throwing at us.. When YOU agree to live by the rest of the chapter in the Old Testament law then I will live by the one verse. When Christ came, He became the law and the old law was passed away... The verses in the NT seack of immorality for everyone...

Posted 9/16/08 - 10:31 PM


Out For Jesus
Beaverton
0
Sorry about the misspellings... I have some keys that stick and my fingers move faster than they should. The verses in the NT speak of immorality for everyone. I am happily married to a woman and I am a woman. I don't cheat on her and treat her as Christ loved his Bride, the church... It doesn't matter what you are, all are called to live a Holy life if you want to find favor in Christ. As a minister of the gospel, I am as dedicated to my wife as you are yours. I am just so glad that Jesus said "whosoever" believeth shall be save.. and that includes me.

Posted 9/16/08 - 10:36 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Trying to understand and have compassion. But, I see this as pure rebellion against God. Col 2:8, 1 Thess:4:3-8, 1 Tim 6:20-21. 2 Tim:3-4 "For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths." 2Peter 3:9 "The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard delay, but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." I fear Judgement Day is coming and time is running out.

Posted 9/16/08 - 10:37 PM


fisherwoman
0
Doctor Whom: If a man raped a woman, only his life was required. Deut. 22:25-27. If a woman pledged to be married slept w/ another man, both were stoned. (V. 23,24. God demands holiness, because He is holy.Pefection, because He is perfect! We can only be holy in Christ, through repentance, faith, and rebirth by God. John 3 God can forgive your sins because Christ suffered the wrath of God and the penalty of it: death. Unless we repent of sin, we will perish. www.needGod.com

Posted 9/16/08 - 11:18 PM


fisherwoman
0
Jude 4 (ESV) 4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. Romans 13:14 (ESV) 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Posted 9/16/08 - 11:50 PM


olusheyi28
los angeles, Ca
0
So What!!He's not the first homosexual in Gospel/Christian music and he won't be the last.He just had the courage to admit it.There are others who aren't real enough to admit that is what they like.So if you ostricze him, you might as well ostrize all of the choir directors,singers and male choir members, cause most of them are, "how you doin'?"For those of you that hate it, some of y'all are doin' it too, and are scared y'all are gonna be found out. Judge not lest ye be judged Matthew 7:1

Posted 9/17/08 - 1:14 AM


SRVIVR
0
I appreciate his honesty and hope he continue's allowing the Lord JESUS to be first in his life. His walk will be easier. Also that the radio station's will continue to play the annointed song's Ray has recorded.If not, they will deprive many who can and would be touched by the salvation message in them. Were all saved by GOD"S grace through JESUS CHRIST.I know, HE healed me of cancer 25 year's ago and gave me the faith I have to this day. And also to realize that GOD is love and HE reaches out to those that need HIM. And many do, they just do not realize it, yet. May the songs be heard.

Posted 9/17/08 - 2:18 AM


triciasmind
0
Interesting that people keep bemoaning the Old Testament. Most of the scripture given here has been from the New.

Posted 9/17/08 - 7:07 AM


triciasmind
0
SRVIVR, how is he continuing to allow the Lord Jesus to be first in his life when he's abandoned his belief in the inerrency of the Bible and has abandoned his wife and role as a present father so he can persue sex with guys? Yes, he can be forgiven. Yes, he can repent. We all can , by God's grace. The issue is Ray puts his behavior on God's shoulders, says God made him like this. You can just hear the serpent over and over in this story saying "Did God really say"?

Posted 9/17/08 - 7:13 AM


triciasmind
0
And remember, when you are being tempted, do not say, “God is tempting me.” God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else James 1:13 Be a man, Ray. Don't blame God for this.

Posted 9/17/08 - 7:37 AM


someonewhocares
austin, Tx
0
oh my god who do you think you are fooling mr Boltz. god did not create you to be with another man that is disgusting . he created adam & eve not adam & steve you need to go back and read your bible read romans 1:29 , corinthians 6:9-10 Leviticus 20:13 and so on. you say god made you this way and you are going to live this way you are so right god is not sending you to hell you are doing that on your own for the disgusting choice you have made and allowing this disgusting spirit to take over you. the truth is you have opened the door to this gisgusting sin. no such thing as a gay christian.

Posted 9/17/08 - 9:05 AM


dumbfounded
0
“If this is the way God made me, then this is the way I’m going to live." Interesting. I have heard about Christians who struggled with homosexuality - while I cannot understand what that feels like, I cannot condemn. People like that probably need to not date at all. But then Ray says he has been dating and lives “a normal gay life” now. He also says "I read every book, I read all the scriptures they use, I did everything to try and change" - perhaps he should have asked for God's help. Instead he gives up.

Posted 9/17/08 - 10:24 AM


concernedpsalmist
Muncie, In
0
I understand the struggles that Christians seem to go through when their feelings don't match what scripture teaches. I am a single, divorced man. I am not gay, but I understand the struggle we ALL have with our flesh. I know Ray, and will pray for him. We must understand what God calls us to do in light of our feelings. I have "feelings" for women that are not my wife. That does not give me the luxury of acting on those feelings with the justification that God made me this way. Christ gives us the grace to allow Him to live through us. Life does not exist without the need for restraint.

Posted 9/17/08 - 10:26 AM


artm
Oswego, Il
0
There must be Love given to these people, And at the sametime, they must be willing to admit that homosexuality is sin and wrong. if not hoow can there ne true repentance and forgivness.? Art.

Posted 9/17/08 - 10:29 AM


dead2me82
0
Out For Jesus - Jesus did not "replace" the OT Law! Did you read His statement? He came to fulfill, not to abolish the law. Let's say the Law was replaced though, you can't deny the NT words against homosexuality. Yes, God knew Boltz had this sin...explains why Boltz struggled for so long and was tormented. He lived a lie, a lie against God. Reminds me of Jonah running. Finally, we all have sin as who we are, which is why we are calld to "deny ourselves daily, take up our cross (burden), and follow Christ". Being right with God doesn't mean your happy, it means that He is with us.

Posted 9/17/08 - 10:55 AM


Doctor Whom
0
So we should concentrate on the New Testament, and also, Jesus upheld the Law? Make up your minds, folks. Then again, I guess I shouldn't be too harsh, since proof texts can be found for both propositions, meaning that your perfect holy book contradicts itself yet again. Also, either way, I'm still waiting to be proved wrong on the Bible and slavery. By the way, fisherwoman, you're distorting those passages from Deuteronomy on rape; go back and give them a closer reading.

Posted 9/17/08 - 10:57 AM


jjmme
morton, Il
0
THE DEVIL HAS A HOLD OF YOU AND I AM PRAYING THAT HE LEAVES YOU ALONE AND YOU REALIZE WHAT HAS HAPPENED. YOU ARE CONFUSED AND THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO RESPOND. PRAYING FOR YOU RAY

Posted 9/17/08 - 11:00 AM


ShirleyTipsy
0
1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God." Looks like all of us are on the road to hell. I'd love to see any of you claim to never have done any of these things. Mr. Boltz, I believe in Christ, I believe in your right to love another human being, regardless of what sex they are; and I believe in you. Hang in there.

Posted 9/17/08 - 11:28 AM


advancedbourland
0
@jjmme - really, if Jesus were standing before us now is that what He'd say to Ray? No. Simmer down, and go read about the adultress and how He was so compassionate with her. It is NOT our job to change people, it is NOT our job to make snide remarks and to shun someone in our "community" (ha community, I thought communities helped one another) just because of this. My issue is that this article has had to focus SO MUCH on what the Christian community will do/say and it's ridiculous that it's all negative. Not because the article is wrong, but because it's correct.

Posted 9/17/08 - 11:58 AM


advancedbourland
0
When the heck will we show God's love. When will we stand for what we DO do and not just for what we DON'T do? What are you FOR if you are a Christian? Are you FOR people? Then love people. And stop making God look like he has a row of picket signs we have to wade through before coming to Him. Are you the one to judge Ray's heart? Or is that the Lord? So what's your job here? To love a member of the body of Christ. It's sad (but true) that we usually ARE the people in the little boxes on TV arguing with people. What a waste of time we could actually be doing something for God.

Posted 9/17/08 - 12:02 PM


triciasmind
0
advamce. don't forget Jesus did point out sin ...he wasn't just a buddy. Jesus met the woman at the well and instead of having a casual chat, told her right away that He knew she was living in adultry. He didn't let the prostitute off, He said "go....and sin no more". That wans't a permission sleep. He showed nearly everyone He met how they were heading for trouble. Ray hasn't gotten a lot of bashing on this site, he's gotten a lot of biblical counsel. I doubt he's even reading it, he knows what people are going to say. The Bible tells believers to reel people back in with truth, not judgment

Posted 9/17/08 - 12:08 PM


triciasmind
0
advanced, I just saw your second post come up. You're being more hateful than most of the posters. How do you think you can convince people to love when you're not doing it yourself? That's a huge problem with casual Christianity today. Its all about love, but they have so little patience and love to share.

Posted 9/17/08 - 12:11 PM


advancedbourland
0
Casual Christianity, really? Did I say I was a casual Christian? I am upset because I have to make sure when I tell someone I am a believer I have to wade through all the hate that the Church has heaped on the world via debate, etc. It's not a sin to be angry - remember Jesus at the temple? I didn't say God was "just a buddy" - if you only knew where I was coming from. But you can't not in this little comment section. That's all I'm trying to say, you don't know where people are coming from so how can people say all these things?

Posted 9/17/08 - 12:36 PM


advancedbourland
0
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. This is from 1 Cor 13. This is all I'm getting at, and I'm sorry if I sound frustrated, but it makes me cry to think of someone feeling so much shame when the Bible clearly says shame is a tool of the enemy, not God.

Posted 9/17/08 - 12:39 PM


advancedbourland
0
I didn't say sin doesn't have consequences - but shame is not of God, shame is what locks us in a closet. Do I think homosexuality is a sin? Actually, yes (no one throw something at me please, anyone who knows me knows... well they just know more than I'll say here). But God did not say one sin is worse than another, and I'd hardly think you'd run into this kind of ridicule if you lied on your tax return. I am just begging people to rethink the way we treat others, and rethink what we say and do. It's not working.

Posted 9/17/08 - 12:44 PM


kim
0
After Jesus was crucified, there was no need for any other animal or person to be crucified. Let's not crucify Ray Boltz ... let us .. WATCH THE LAMB. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_L0AXVU5Ks God have mercy on us all. We each have our own lives to live out before Him.

Posted 9/17/08 - 1:24 PM


ShirleyTipsy
0
I completely see where you are coming from Advanced, and I can appreciate your honesty in saying that you see homosexuality as a sin, but still think those people deserve the same love and respect as straight people do. I couldn't agree more. Just because someone is a Christian who believes in thinking outside of that tiny box, does not make them casual. Don't feel the need to explain yourself any further, I think who you are came across crystal clear and i'd break bread with you any day. :)

Posted 9/17/08 - 1:31 PM


jdgville
0
How, being christan folk can some of you be so quick to judge. Like any of us are right and others are wrong? Who cares? Ray, good for you! I'm happy you found yourself and were stronger than your fears. For that's what it's all about. It's liberating to be who you are and be okay with it. So be who you are, still sing gospel music, worship how you feel you should worship and let others find their own way.l They'll be confronted with some similar life altering struggle in their lives which can crush one's spirit and then they'll truly understand what it means to "know thyself".

Posted 9/17/08 - 1:43 PM


jdgville
0
Oh! And one more thing? How many of US (gay people) were raised in churches and still continue to go to church and are christan? I wonder? Churches (not religion) raise gay folks too. Many in music! AS was I, my partner and my friends. I've recently met many a piano player for chirstan gosepl groups here in the south who, guess what? Are gay and out and loved by their bandmates.

Posted 9/17/08 - 1:47 PM


thoughtful
Salisbury, Md
0
A man can only ever report to his conscience and his knowledge/understanding of the truth. If knowing all the things the Bible says regarding his choice and Ray chooses to stand before a loving, terrifying, holy God and say 'I chose this', then it is his right to take that risk as a man. Just as it is my right to risk death about my choices. I am confident that Truth will win, and will not suffer from free discussion.

Posted 9/17/08 - 1:53 PM


triciasmind
0
He doesn't feel shame he suggests God may have made him want to leave his husband and sleep with guys. Keep trying, you'll get to it eventually.

Posted 9/17/08 - 4:04 PM


triciasmind
0
Oh dear, leave his wife! not his husband, sorry. No stones in my hands, just the Bible that teaches all of us to reach out and help those who have quit the race and try to bring them back with truth.

Posted 9/17/08 - 4:16 PM


triciasmind
0
I can't imagine any better way for a father to mess up his kids' heads than to completely change sexualities before their very eyes AND denounce the Bible they were raised on. Its more than him being happy, its the Pandora's box of confusion he has opened for his family.

Posted 9/17/08 - 4:19 PM


SRVIVR
0
triciasmind; do you know what it is like to srtuggle with trial's and tribulation's? I really wonder. My point about Ray was, if within his mind and Spirit the Lord is first, there is the work of the HOLY SPIRIT, and where the work of the HOLY SPIRIT is we have the example of the Prodical Son.What one may think is good now may decide that it is not later. Personally, it is between Ray and GOD. Only the SPIRIT of the LORD is the true sorce of wisdom. KING DAVID sinned, adultery, murder, but he was a man after GOD's own heart. Allow GOD to be GOD. If a brother stumbles, pray, not judge.

Posted 9/17/08 - 4:31 PM


triciasmind
0
SRVIVR he didn't keep it between himself and God. He actually put it on God's shoulders.

Posted 9/17/08 - 4:50 PM


SRVIVR
0
and every one keeps mentioning Ray's ( kid's). their 22 to 32. these are not kid's, they are grown adults. fully capable of understanding the situation and fully capable of giving the love and support in trying and troubling times. how many other families would do the same. And I don't think Ray said he denounced the Bible.do you know what your eyes see may not be the whole meaning of what you see. WORD STUDIES find hidden nuggets to deepen the meaning.( I think Ray recognize who he is, be celibate, and allow GOD to use him for the gifted man he is. After all, life is not all about sex.)

Posted 9/17/08 - 5:07 PM


misterdo
0
I was an ex gay,I understand Ray's struggles.But his conduct is inexcusable.I truly feel that if he has fallen it is because he harbored some secret sin, such as self gratification which brings forth lust, temptations and sin.I was in the same predicament, praying,reading,memorizing the word,faithful to my church and ministry etc.But I kept the small secret «pet sin» of self gratification in my life, and like the harmless lion cub that I fed, with time it became a ferocious lion that inevitably devoured me. God doesn't want 99% He wants 100% of our lives and when we do then He can change us.

Posted 9/17/08 - 5:18 PM


SRVIVR
0
triciasmind, if Ray put it on GOD's shoulder's, then it is in a good place. For I do believe, GOD is fully capable of carrying this burden of Rays life. After all, HE died on the CROSS to carry all of our burdens (SINS). SO if it is on GOD's shoulder's, then I sure do thank GOD that he has taken my sin's, cause they do get at times to be more then I can bear. LORD have mercy on me a sinner. Thank you for JESUS, the CROSS, the Resurrection, and HALLELUYAH, the ASCENSION. Without, we would have no hope. What is that line, He carries the weight of the world upon HIS shoulders. HALLELUYAH!!!

Posted 9/17/08 - 5:19 PM


triciasmind
0
His kids are those ages NOW-this happened in his family a few years back. "His faith was in transition —tenants he’d adhered to all his life suddenly were up for reconsideration" NOTE THE CHANGE : "I guess I felt that the church, that they had it wrong about how I felt with being gay all these years, so maybe they had it wrong about a lot of other things.” "Boltz declines to go into specifics about the first time he was with a man, but says he has been dating and lives “a normal gay life” now." NOTE: "Be celibate" isn't part of this.

Posted 9/17/08 - 5:27 PM


triciasmind
0
Did you even read this article? LOL He put it on God's shoulders as far as giving God responsibility for his sin. You act like this thread is an assault on Ray. It's not, read carefully. Several are standing up for the written Word of God and what it says regarding sexual immorality. Is anyone here claiming to be perfect? Heaven's no. It's a topic of conversation. It would be better if you practiced the "Love" you preach. No reason to add drama when there is none here.

Posted 9/17/08 - 5:29 PM


triciasmind
0
Ray's words: “This is what it really comes down to,” he says. “If this is the way God made me, then this is the way I’m going to live. It’s not like God made me this way and he’ll send me to hell if I am who he created me to be".So now we have a dilemma. Either the Bible is inerrant or its all a great writing of fiction.Feel free to believe as you wish, I believe its God's written word of instruction to us on what He wants from us, not just what we get from Him.That's my stand I don't set myself above Ray. I ask when did sin become something to feel so proud about that we need to announce it

Posted 9/17/08 - 5:36 PM


Jazzy
Decatur, Il
0
BIG Ditto on Advancebourland!! I totally agree! I've been in Ministry for 30 years and have found "Christian" people to be more unloving and unforgiving than people "in the world". We are on the same team here. Lets pull together, cover each other in prayer and stop acting like "I'm better than you cause your sin is "bigger" than mine, not to mention out in the open. Ray, My heart goes out to you and your family. Forgive us for thinking we would have handled your situation perfectly.

Posted 9/17/08 - 11:17 PM


Codemnray
Westland, Mi
0
"For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Romans 7:19 This news is shocking and just floors me. It is so sad to hear. Satan is the author of confusion, and his glory is lies and deception; he is out to take anyone down he can (no matter how long it takes). My heart goes out to Ray Boltz and makes me wish he could have gotten the help he needed a long time ago. It is impossible to get closer to God, by going against what he clearly says. Everyone has struggles, you just don't give in and give yourelf over to the dark side.

Posted 9/17/08 - 11:43 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Advancedbourland - I agree 100% about shame being a tool of the devil. In Gen 3:21 God sacrificed the first animal to cover Adam and Eve after they sinned....to cover their SHAME. Then, he kicked them out of Eden to suffer the consequences of sin. A loving Father desiring not eternal punishment....the angel guarded the tree of life so they would not eat and live in sin 4ever. In HIS MERCY, Jesus went to the cross because He DESPISED ITS SHAME (Hebrews 12:2). Our FATHER LONGS for us to REPENT and be clothed in righteousness NOT SHAME. But REPENT WE MUST! It is so easy to categorize our

Posted 9/18/08 - 12:08 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
sins. WE ARE ALL SINNERS! I HURT for the pain I read in the blog. I HURT for all mankind. WE NEED GOD DESPERATELY. And we NEED to repent ALL OF US!!! AND learn to LOVE....LOVE....LOVE.... Todays reading was Cor 12 -13 . We NEED to pray and FAST for one another to REPENT of all of our self righteousness. We cannot speak intimately with each other UNTIL we become friends. Jesus calls us friends John 15. HE will help us all. Let us not lose sight of the POWER OF PRAYER for one another. MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL!!!

Posted 9/18/08 - 12:12 AM


andab43
0
I feel so sad. Why do you want to be gay? I mean if I woke up one day, and felt I was attracted to the same sex I would not act on it no matter what. It seems to me that (from others testimonies) yes from Ray's, that it is more like an obsession, or a devil that can't be outrun. He wanted to free himself from the homosexual tendancy's (sp) but just couldn't shake it for all those years. But devils can be cast out. I do not want to be disrespectful and do not wish to hurt feelings at all. But as with any sin, sin can be avoided. If someone felt they wanted to murder someone - they need to just NOT_ do it. If they had the gun and was feeling like they were going to use it, they should get help, and NOT USE IT! You wouldn't say to such a person well, you tried to shake those thoughts but they are still there after all this time so you might as well act on them, and quit hiding your true feelings. No, you just don't do it. You just don't.

Posted 9/18/08 - 5:45 AM


andab43
0
And there is acceptance of people without accepting the sin. Yes we all sin and all have sinned. But to walk in sin daily and take it as acceptable is not just sin. It is then living a sinful lifestyle purposely. There is a difference between sinning, and living in sin purposely. Yes Jesus loves each and everyone of us. Yes we all need forgivness of sins, but what is the intention? Is it to go and sin no more or is it to live in sin purposely and think that is acceptable to God? Do not be deceived - God is not mocked. He gave his Son to forgive our sins. Not to sin freely and unashamed.

Posted 9/18/08 - 5:58 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Our conscience is a gift from God to know right from wrong...good guilt. The devil capitalizes on our sins by producing shame which makes us want to hide from God...bad guilt. Sin produces shame. The ONLY way to rid ourselves of shame is to be clothed in the righteousness of God. The only way to achieve righteousness is through Jesus and Holy Spirit. The ONLY way to Jesus is to repent and die to sin. Society wants to justify sin....change its definition to ease it's pain. This is the bottom line. If we keep our eyes on Jesus He will lead us back to Himself through GRACE, MERCY & LOVE.

Posted 9/18/08 - 6:47 AM


lastblast
0
I was so sad when I heard the news of Ray Boltz's "coming out" on the Bob Dutko show. I truly love his music, which I believe, is inspired by God. The thing that troubles me is that Bob believes God made him with the desires he has, so it is ok to live by them. Does he also believe that those who have desires for animals or small children should also live out those desires? Does he believe that God put those desires there? Where do we draw the line as Christians??? With the word of GOD. This is how we know what immorality is. Ray has forsaken the woman God joined him to. Sad...

Posted 9/18/08 - 9:12 AM


lastblast
0
oops, sorry, meant to say RAY believes God has made him with the sinful desires he has. Bob Dutko does NOT believe homosexuality and Christianity go hand in hand.

Posted 9/18/08 - 9:14 AM


triciasmind
0
I've enjoyed reading the ideas on this board. I want to say that I personally bring no condemnation upon Ray Boltz as a brother. My slate is dirty enough. Its never an exciting thing to watch someone of faith struggle with wrong and right. We can't compromise on our stance just because others get angry with us. Many of you have represented yourselves very well in expressing your care and yet you have left a reminder for him and others of what it really means to live what we say we believe.

Posted 9/18/08 - 10:22 AM


triciasmind
0
Pray for Ray and all those impacted by his decision. God can convict him and use him to testify of His mercy once we come to Him with a repentant heart. Keep standing for truth even when angry people oppose you.The more people compromise, the more our country is turned inside out. "Gay" is the wrong term,as shown on this board it brings anger, hostility, misery to those who accept it in their lives.They lose their sense of right and wrong and strongly oppose representation of God's truth.May God reach out to each one of us and open our minds and ears to the Words He left behind for us.

Posted 9/18/08 - 10:27 AM


sthompson515
0
An alternative view: There's so much the mainstream Christian does not know about God's word. I doubt most of us read Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic; I doubt we've have translated the original texts. I think most people take what their pastor tells them as God's Word literally. I encourage everyone to read "What God Has Joined Together: A Christian Case for Gay Marriage." The book explains how Biblical mistranslations led to misconceptions regarding homosexuality. Additionally, science is proving homosexuality has a genetic component (passed through the mother). Luke 6:37

Posted 9/18/08 - 11:08 AM


allaboutgrace
0
My aunt went to church and had a relationship with Christ for the past 40+ years since being married to her husband. Every sunday her husband chose to go fishing. He never had a relationship with God. She (and our family prayed for all these years that he would. He supported her, but chose not to go. Recently he gave his life to Christ. My point. We live in a microwave society. We want it to stop hurting now. We want to know now. We want..we wan...we want..What about what God wants. His time our time...there's a difference. Coming out of the closet seems to fix it..or does it? I don't think so

Posted 9/18/08 - 12:22 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Just returned from Israel. Old parchments found in Dead Sea scrolls have only verified the authenticity of Torah AND New Testament. Archeological digs continue to support truth of the Word. As far as genetics goes....Romans 1: 1-23. Then verse 24:"Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies....25 exchange truth for a lie. What does HANDED THEM OVER TO IMPURITY mean? I believe we become what we choose.....FULLY BECOME...God does not condemn us we condemn ourselves....get what we choose. I PRAY we choose well!

Posted 9/18/08 - 1:29 PM


lastblast
0
http://www.elroy.net/ehr/gay.html#more http://www.cadz.net/mdr.html I want to add, I believe homosexuality being accepted in many churches today is a direct result of heterosexuals' sins. Jesus says, "EVERYONE who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery and EVERYONE who marries her that is divorced, commits adultery". There are far more people LIVING in the state of adultery (state legalized adultery) than there are homosexuals who profess to be Christian. Until that SIN is dealt with, we can only expect the other kinds of sexual immorality to grow.

Posted 9/18/08 - 2:02 PM


1o'clock
0
no way at all is the gay lifestyle how God created anyone. dont forget, he torched two cities for homosexuality. you choose to be gay, you arent made by God gay. no way, no how, period. it's what helps them all sleep at night. so mr boltz, or ms boltz, study the word, and pray, cuz God did not call you to be gay. devil got one more!

Posted 9/18/08 - 2:11 PM


1o'clock
0
sthompson515 wow, you are way off. science is proving, and has proved just the opposite.

Posted 9/18/08 - 2:27 PM


comeclean
0
What I would like to know is when Ray was sexually abused. I am a person who has several gay family members and friends that I love dearly that have all related to me that the dirty little secret of the gay community is that the majority of them where sexually abused. In other words homosexuality is a cause and affect situation. That consequently was why it used to be in psychology books as a disorder. You aren't helping yourselves by living in denial, or anyone else for that matter.

Posted 9/18/08 - 7:55 PM


locrianmode
0
As a humanist, I view Ray's coming out as an admiral thing to do, even though he did it for personal reasons. Everyone who hates homosexuals and their actions, ask yourselves if it is really directly harming you. A religion which punishes those who are simply being themselves (genetics has proven homosexuality is NOT a choice, so no comeclean, its not based on abuse) should be questioned. At one point, many religions including Christians viewed people of different skin colors the same way people view homosexuals today. Think about how far we have come. This is just another step to acceptance.

Posted 9/18/08 - 10:13 PM


David W
Seattle, Wa
0
I just want to point out some of the post her have suggest that someone gay would want to engage in bestiality. It’s funny, nothing I have read, here or else where, has suggested anybody gay wanting to do that. Though, I have read in Seattle Times of Heterosexuals who have engaged in bestiality in the red neck part of WA. Yet it’s people who claim to be heterosexual that always have to bring this argument up against homosexuality. Therefore could a conclusion of an argument against bestiality really be an argument against heterosexuality? Or could all these arguments for/against just be stupid

Posted 9/18/08 - 11:41 PM


David W
Seattle, Wa
0
Screwtape to Wormwood: It’s so great that we got these people to stop focusing on what grace really means. Earning your salvation is the ticket; don’t let these damn people even think that sin does not matter. Don’t let them think it’s about a relationship with above is the most important thing. Make sure they make a list of what is worst then their sin so we can keep them from feeding,clothing,visiting the poor. Greed is the ticket. That JC guy telling people not to judge, less they be judge, I almost thought we lost it. Paul telling people that all sins are equal: you lie = you homo = killer

Posted 9/19/08 - 12:24 AM


David W
Seattle, Wa
0
Screwtape to Wormwood Cont: Don’t let them think anything about that. Remember make sure they bring their fire extinguisher to the floods, flame throwers to the fires. What ever you do, don’t remind them of the 1st & 2nd Rules: Love the 1 above all else, and their neighbor as themselves(LOL). Get them focused on the 10 and then we will have them. Give them all the reasons why that other person is not their neighbor, and make them so ineffectual that no one takes them serious. Good work Wormwoom. {Thanks C.S.Lewis.-DW}

Posted 9/19/08 - 12:35 AM


comeclean
0
I am amazed that people still think that there is genetic proof of homosexuality. THIS HAS NEVER EVEN COME CLOSE TO BEING PROVED. The gay gene is better known as sexual abuse. Blaming a gene skirts the issue and keeps people from dealing with their issues. I guess the elephant in the room is sitting outside the closet. Once again, there is a reason why being gay was a psychological disorder. It is because it is caused (a good portion of the time) by sexual abuse. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but unfortunately the choir is in denial.

Posted 9/19/08 - 1:12 AM


comeclean
0
Locrianmode, so if you are so intent on accepting every choice that someone makes in their sexual preference than how long will it be until you take up the cause of child molesters! Maybe their born with the child molester gene. The acceptance road is a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line and how can you state that one is right while the other is wrong when you clearly have no bases of morality. When you stand for everything you stand for nothing and you my friend are nomad looking for purpose among the causes of the truly lost...how sad

Posted 9/19/08 - 1:20 AM


Nenya
0
God bless you, Ray. May you have peace after 30 years of struggle and learn more and more about the person God made you to be. Someday, CCM and the people who listen to it will have to realize that they can't say that gay people are "those people" "out there" who "hate God." No--gay people come from every walk of life, every religion, every society. They are no more confined to the non-Christian or non-conservative world than straight people are. All these stories about people who TRIED for 20, 30, 40 years to be straight, who nearly DIED trying to be ex-gay: when will that get through?

Posted 9/19/08 - 3:16 AM


1o'clock
0
nenya, may there be peace?? what does that mean? i hope he gets so convicted now that he realizes the mess he's in. totally against the bible. may there be peace?? i dont get you people. but i guess this is where the bible says that wrong will be considered right,and right will be considered wrong. you all are playing right into the endtimes.

Posted 9/19/08 - 7:40 AM


1o'clock
0
GOD DID NOT MAKE HIM THAT WAY!!!! GET A CLUE PEOPLE.

Posted 9/19/08 - 7:42 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Clarification. My "opinion" is not relevant. Neither is your "opinion". Since when did God leave one of us "in charge"??? Our loving Father has given us revelation in the Bible (IF you are a Christian). My frustration is that somehow someone believes that they have "evolved" to some higher consciousness and can disregard the teachings we have been given to achieve heaven or hell. Yes, He says, "The greatest of these is LOVE". But, he did not say if you love greatly you can redefine what HE calls sin. I did not define sodomy as sin. GOD DID. I am not asking anyone to justify my sin.

Posted 9/19/08 - 8:18 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
PLEASE do not ask me to justify your sins.....ANY of them. I have no idea how God will judge our sins. But I PRAY FOR HIS MERCY FOR ALL OF US. The great DANGER here is teaching people that any sin is ok. May GOD help us if we steer any child of HIS astray. IF I embrace sin and choose death that is my choice..GOD gave that free will to me. But, IF I lead ANYONE else astray....that is going to ANGER our GOD and HE WILL BRING WRATH AND JUSTICE....Israel is great example read OT. Exile and enslavement for their rebellion. We may not be far off that same path! I PRAY FOR HIS MERCY FOR ALL

Posted 9/19/08 - 8:23 AM


nmwolfboy
0
God bless this man for his sincerity, and for simply living into the acceptance of where God has been trying to lead him. My prayers are with him. May God strengthen him & his family as they face the crap-storm that many Christians are inevitably going to throw at them (and in fact already are.) The fact that some of these will claim their judgment and condemnation is given in the spirit of love only demonstrates how little they know about following the Way of Christ. Pray for them as well.

Posted 9/19/08 - 9:14 AM


Cordova
0
"Boltz declines to go into specifics about the first time he was with a man, but says he has been dating and lives “a normal gay life” now." He would only decline because the first time he was with a man he was victimized by an older man. This is the moment that the victim becomes deceived into thinking, because pleasure was felt during the physical contact, that some how they are now "gay." The never forget the incident and it nags at them. The reality is that sex with shame and sin seems to have a real strong hold on people. What man doesn't struggle with the temptation to entertain thoughts of having sex with a stranger. (You know the young woman that bends over at Wal Mart at the wrong time.) The thoughts may be something like this, "Wow! Look at her! What would it be like to ..... ..." Fill in the blank. If a man ever gets to do what he wanted to that girl it creates a memory the natural drugs that surge through the body and the excitement of doing something "dirty and wrong" is almost unreal! He is instantly addicted. He will never forget. Unfortunately Boltz bought the lie that it is an identity. It is not. Sodomy is an act. A destructive and addictive one. That's all it is. He should have came out 30 years ago and turned into his parents, church, trusted friends and police what had happened. Then he would be able to overcome the destruction on his life and that of his families. Homosexuality is a lie! ... Sodomy is not an identity. Men don't have vagina's. The act of homosexuality is always rape and leaves an injured victim. The relief and "peace" that Boltz feels is only that he has been holding in this incident that has happened to him years ago. He will not find peace but a lie, telling himself that this is his identity will not be satisfactory. Ray Boltz is now living another lie. Sounds confusing? SODOMY IS NOT AN IDENTITY IT IS A CRIME! Imagine I tell my wife and all of you one day that, yeah being married to my wife is great but I have been hiding my true self inside for years. My true self is that I wan't to have endless sex with hot 18 year old chicks! I have been holding it in. I got to come out of the closet. Does this sound ridiculous? Well imagine a Christian man "coming out" and saying the he has been holding in the urge to sodomize another man and he needs to let it out. Disgusting! I feel sick. Where are the police to arrest him?

Posted 9/19/08 - 11:11 AM


Ethelene
0
You need to reaseach Promise Keepers. It is more than them being the "head of the Christian home". As for as Boltz is concerned, I and my friends were devasted by this news. God did not make people to be homosexuals. That is contradictory to everything the Bible teaches. Sexualy immorality is a sin is all its forms. That is why He destroyed Soddom and Gomarrah. Sex with anyone you are not married to is a sin as well as sex with the same sex. God made woman for man but only if they are married. I am not anti-gay. I am anti-sin. We are all sinners but we are not to live in sin. We repent.

Posted 9/19/08 - 12:03 PM


nmwolfboy
0
The certainty of so many who are commenting about the mind of God, God's intentions for others, and the nature & morality of sexuality would be funny, if their comments didn't reflect a third grade understanding of the Bible & human sexuality. Instead, it's just sad how free self-proclaimed arbiters of morality feel to condemn people who differ from them, especially when the people they denounce share their faith.

Posted 9/19/08 - 12:20 PM


meharlabee
0
As someone who has studied theology and is in the ministry, I'd like to say that I can spend time refuting arguments based on culture and language and the errancy of Scripture, but I have had that argument for so long. To Ray: You know yourself that their are loving Christians out there. We accept you. :)

Posted 9/19/08 - 2:14 PM


meharlabee
0
P.S. Cordova/comeclean - you have no right to assume he was abused. How was you like it if someone assumed you were a jerk because your daddy beat you? (sorry to be so blunt, but that is essentially what you are doing here). Ehthelene - Reread the Sodom and Gommorah story, but try not to go in it already thinking you know what it means.

Posted 9/19/08 - 2:17 PM


meharlabee
0
Oh. Something else - I hope that you know that the "Christians" exploding this page with judgment and hate which are reserved for God alone are only pushing people away from Christ. AND. There is no original Greek word for homosexuality as we define it today. They had no concept of sexual orientation, it was just about pleasure and the act then. Today, many Christians recognize it as a natural thing, but the act as sinful.

Posted 9/19/08 - 2:20 PM


TheMaverickLeader
Miramar Beach, Fl
0
At first I was shocked when I heard Ray had announced he was gay. Then I reflected on his music and how over the years his words had helped me through some rough times. Now as an authentic follower of Jesus, I believe that we all will face the Lord someday and answer for our short comings. It will not matter if we're gay, or having a secret affair with a women, and never tell our wife. The sad thing is most folks who call themselves Christians rate others sin as evil, while justifying their own. As for me, I will continue to follow Jesus, and let Him decide who is going to heaven or not.

Posted 9/19/08 - 3:19 PM


comeclean
0
meharlabee, You may assume that I am jerk because my father beat me and that may be the truth. The point is facing the issue of abuse caused orientation and TRUTH. How good a person am I to accept my friend who is killing himself with alcoholism when all along I know that to save his life I need to stop accepting and speak truth and take action? You can accept people all the way to hell (personal or literal).I choose to shed some light on the situation and not allow them to deceive themselves into not being free. I don't accept my own sin and I thank God for friends that call me on it.

Posted 9/19/08 - 4:12 PM


comeclean
0
Doing the right thing is seldom easy or comfortable. Also, if we ignore the abuse that caused the issue then we let the molesters continue to abuse and ruin countless other lives. Those people do far more harm to a person than a random act of violence could ever achieve. You are essentially covering up the cause and enabling the criminal. My great grandfather had 12 children whom he molested. Every one of the children thought they were the only one because they never talked about it enabling the pervert to continue and never face justice. Maybe we should just accept him as he was huh?

Posted 9/19/08 - 4:22 PM


comeclean
0
One more thing meharlabee, "the "Christians" exploding this page with judgment and hate"...I think you are confusing "hate" with TRUTH. I'm sorry that you hate the TRUTH but unfortunately for you (fortunate for us) the Truth remains the Truth regardless of what you think. Truth is very painful when you are not living in it. Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.

Posted 9/19/08 - 4:55 PM


Eagle77
Greenwood, SC
0
I am always amazed at how folks seem to think of Christianity as a club and they can join any way they see fit. Ray Boltz has produced an amazing number of hits in Christian music and I personally have sung some of his songs in church. The thing that gets me here is that he played the game and would have everyone believe a lie for all these years. Un-confessed and un-forgiven sin will not enter Heaven. There are many who are in the stage of believing a lie (reprobates, apostates) and God has tried for so long that He let them truly believe whatever they wish. Be sure you have the correct!

Posted 9/19/08 - 5:25 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Meharlabee, Reflecting on my words I have not condemned Ray. I condemn what God calls sin. The scriptures are not my words. Sorry they "offend" you. REALLY! They offend me too, at times. But, I have to embrace them with humility, daily surrendering my pride, trusting that my Father has the "best" plan for my life. That is Christianity. OR you can continue to take the approach you are taking. It sounds familiar. But the serpent said to the woman: "You certainly will not die!" (Genesis 3:3-4) By the way, what are sins that you consider important enough to avoid or that warrant repentance?

Posted 9/19/08 - 6:32 PM


nmwolfboy
0
Oh, the idolatry of our favored interpretations of scripture. For me, when i kneel & pray, it becomes a matter of, "have i used my favored interpretations of scripture and personal (flawed) understandings of God & Christ to hurt others, or have i lived in love toward God & His children". I tend to think the Holy Spirit is leading me toward the latter & away from the former. God bless Mr. Boltz & his family. I'll happily leave judgment to God.

Posted 9/19/08 - 7:46 PM


ixlandia
0
Do you really think GOD has given you the power to condemn? The BIBLE is a tool to be used in your own personal journey to the truth, not to point out flaws in OTHERS. So let us stop pointing fingers and judging others, as only GOD can judge anyone. If you want to save anyone else, show them the way and let GOD point out what they need to change. That is not up to YOU.

Posted 9/19/08 - 9:00 PM


Rocket
Arlington, Va
0
Have read all the posts, many are preachy, many are in defense of the unknown, many are showing fear of the unknown, and some are down- right hateful - But in all of the reading, I do not see anyone presenting the LOVE of God to the world to the readers. All that comes across is scared folks telling other scared folks things that you may or may not know about! What about sharing "For God So Loved the world ..that HE gave" or inviting people to come to the Lord and finding true Love, true Peace and JOY. Ray has a testimony to his Lord, we will be with him in heaven, by faith! singing. Amen!

Posted 9/19/08 - 9:55 PM


Rocket
Arlington, Va
0
.... that whosoever believes in Jesus shall have Everlasting Life... WHOSOEVER - folks that means all of us, no matter what where who with whom, how or why?? We all by faith become children of the most High God and stand as new babes, Stop the nonsense and arguing between yourselves, this makes Jesus laugh, meanwhile Jesus and Ray go on about "bearing witness to the God who came to seek and to save" - so start praying the Holy Spirit will work in many hearts, in this very moment. God Bless You each one as YOU open your heart to the Power of God and believe!

Posted 9/19/08 - 10:05 PM


Jayster
0
There are too many religious Christians out there who are very judgemental. So Ray Boltz is a sinner-aren't we all? In the Bible sin is sin. It is all equal. God condemns ALL sin. So I guess we are all condemned. Thank goodness for God's grace and forgiveness. The key is to repent and to turn from our sin and live our lives for God according to the scripture. So if you are committing adultry, you shouldn't say well God still loves me and accepts me even though I have these feelings for someone other than my husband or wife. NO! He wants us to turn from our temptations.

Posted 9/19/08 - 10:40 PM


Jayster
0
If God condemns homosexuality then those who are tempted in that way need to turn to God for help. God still loves Ray Boltz but Ray Boltz has accepted the lie from Satan that he can live in sin and that God is ok with that. I not only pray for Ray but for Christians who are tempted each and every day by sin-that they can stand strong against it in these end times when sin is so prevalent. Come on, the Bible tells us how we are to live-we shouldn't accept being sinners and continue to live that way. We should be trying to be more and more like Jesus and that includes loving ALL people.

Posted 9/19/08 - 10:50 PM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
so I guess the answer is that this new "form" of Christianity is that sin does not exist and there is no final judgment. God is "Barney" I love you, you love me. we're a happy family. ANYTHING GOES! Really meant no harm or hurt to anyone. I just have a profoundly different view of the world, our GOD and Christianity. Hope you are right and I am wrong!!! But IF there is a God who is going to have a day of JUSTICE and cleansing of evil from the world, we have had plenty of His scriptures presented for consideration. I for one, seek to err on the side of taking His word for His word.

Posted 9/19/08 - 11:31 PM


Rocket
Arlington, Va
0
Look Up! here we go again, Lots of Religious Talk... Folks, it is not about a Religious Path, there are many of those. It is about a Relationship! Read the recent posts from Jayster and others, do you really see Jesus as the giver of life, the Joy, The Rock, the Bright and Morning Star...? or is this dear soul talking about Religion? God is Love and a Son that gave his life for us.. wherein is that Relationship with Jesus? You are missing something ! Reach out and take the hand of Jesus as you walk along and stop being God's judge, God can handle that Himself.

Posted 9/20/08 - 9:10 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
Scripture ------Religious Talk? This, my friend is the problem. Not one of you can bear to deal with the word Sin. You cannot acknowledge "sin". You cling to the scriptures that speak of the gifts of the spirit and ignore the words that deal with repentance. Unless it is to repent of discerning "sin". Jesus died for our sins. But, he did not remove sin from the world. BE CAREFUL. When you do not acknowledge sin....the next step is not acknowledging the DIVINITY of Christ. Then you are god, I am god. This is not Christianity. In reality, you HATE Christians and the WORD of God.

Posted 9/20/08 - 9:58 AM


sthompson515
0
1o'clock: Did you do your homework? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21309724/ or http://www.skeptictank.org/gaygene.htm. (PS - I'm a straight woman who will be at seminary next year because I want to be a pastor; but I'm sure to most of the conservatives posting here, that makes me as much of an abomination as the homosexuals).

Posted 9/20/08 - 10:15 AM


4samantha
New Orleans, La
0
With SINCERE LOVE and RESPECT for all who are reading these blogs, I pray that God, Our Father, Jesus, His Son, and our Advocate, the Holy Spirit will continue to guide ALL of us as we pursue living lives pleasing to our Creator. May each of us give Glory to Our Father this day! Sincerely, I am sorry if I have caused anger or resentment in any of you! I have only tried to speak TRUTH. I am passionate about my belief if our ALL Powerful, Sovereign God, as you are too. I pray for TRUE PEACE for all of us. In a spirit of LOVE. May God Bless and keep all of you. I am done here!

Posted 9/20/08 - 10:26 AM


Jazzy
Decatur, Il
0
People are dying and going to hell all around us and we are debating with each other. Everyone has to work out their own salvation. Lets be productive where we can and quit wasting time debating.

Posted 9/20/08 - 12:16 PM


blessedjoy
0
My heart is saddened by the ignorance or disregard of God's Word. We have become too accustomed to secular humanism. Loving the sinner as Jesus does and hating the sin is not judging that person but the sin. It seems that we are not willing to call it "sin" though. We are all human and commit sin daily but are forgiven because of the blood of Jesus. But because we love Him we are convicted and want to change our ways. Addiction is a terrible thing and a lie of the flesh and devil. As Chrisitians we should pray more for each other and for the Lord to be glorified.

Posted 9/20/08 - 4:50 PM


nmwolfboy
0
"Lord, keep me always in the company of those who fearlessly seek the truth, and hide me under the shadow of thy wings from those who think they have found it." Of course sin exists, but i don't recall Christ ever commanding us to be obsessed with identifying the speck in each others' eyes - instead, we are commanded to love God and our neighbors. Every minute spent arguing about what we perceive as someone else's sin is another minute we steal from the opportunity to love God and our brothers/sisters.

Posted 9/20/08 - 5:27 PM


joyful777
East Moline, Il
0
This is really dumb...how is it that after 30some years of marriage you just can't take it anymore???!!! THAT'S ODD!!!! One thing I want everyone to keep in mind...God says in his bible that the homosexuals will NOT enter the kingdom of God. God created the human being to his image and I don't think God was GAY, God is perfect not Gay

Posted 9/20/08 - 8:01 PM


Rocket
Arlington, Va
0
People need the Lord, when will we realize that people need the Lord... Listen to the message in this song, and Let God Speak to your Heart (turn your sound on) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGg2OSbNxh4&feature=related

Posted 9/20/08 - 8:52 PM


Rocket
Arlington, Va
0
Jazzy, thank you for your insight and depth of spiritual discernment... the world needs to see and hear of the Christ, not bickering between God's children...

Posted 9/20/08 - 8:57 PM


jr42a
Tucson, Az
0
I cannot believe all of these messages since I last posted; and especially the tone of what is said. Do any of you ever wonder at why LGBT people don't listen to you? The hate definately comes through...and it does despite what you firmly believe. Try walking a while in a gay man's shoes and then come and preach. If this is your God then I don't want it. Listen first, speak second. Let your words be seasoned with grace. Seek to understand... seek to locate that which is of God in the other. As a gay man who is in Ray's position you truthfully cannot and have not taken the time to hear

Posted 9/20/08 - 10:50 PM


Jazzy
Decatur, Il
0
jr42a Look to God, not to man and how we act. We will fail you God will not. My heart goes out to all who struggle. Let us find our peace in God and keep our stones in our pockets.

Posted 9/21/08 - 12:09 PM


Rocket
Arlington, Va
0
My Joy is complete in the Risen Christ and today I had the honor to hear the Gospel presented with a vibrant testimony to God's Grace by Ray at the concert he gave in Washington DC - Not only was the music excellent, his singing outstanding, but his Love for Jesus and his desire to share that saving Grace and Love with others, was so evident. One of his songs was "The Anchor Holds" *Does your Anchor Hold when the storms come? and to whom does it hold? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdT-ubPspGM&feature=related Listen and be blessed as I was...

Posted 9/21/08 - 6:40 PM


denbigh
kyle, Tx
0
When someone steals something from someone else, we say "that's wrong". No one says, "hey, don't condemn that guy! that's just how he is!" When someone murders another individual, no one says, "don't judge him! it's not his fault!" no, we do judge him, because he did wrong. Now, before someone accuses me of comparing murder and theft to homosexuality, please hear me that I'm not. But I will stand by God's Word that declares murder, theft, and homosexuality as sin. It's so clear in His Word that any argument against it shows ignorance. It's not about condemnation, it's about accountability.

Posted 9/21/08 - 10:09 PM


denbigh
kyle, Tx
0
Continued from below..Why is it that whenever someone holds true to God's Word it's seen as condemnation? No one is saying that Ray Boltz isn't deserving of love. He doesn't deserve to be ridiculed and slandered. But he also doesn't deserve a pat on the back and a free ride. Call sin what it is. When I sin, I have people in my life that hold me accountable for my actions. My heart breaks that Ray apparently doesn't have that. And for those that make the argument about God's Word not being "innerant"..which parts do you decide are true and which are false? You? How convienient.

Posted 9/21/08 - 10:14 PM